Think Vitamin - Latest Comments in Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Ryan Carson — Fri, 01 May 2009 02:22:44 -0000

You obviously don't live in the UK like I do :)

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Simon Graham — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 18:45:28 -0000

I worked on one project a couple of years ago where I was training a user who was pretty scared by the web and when she hovered on a link and it changed colour she jumped and asked me "err, what have I done, I didn't do anything!".

She was worried she had started a process or something by accident.

It was a perfectly valid response as it was not something she had experienced before.

The thing that crossed my mind is given how much A/B Testing 37signals do, they may well have found that the static links with no hover get more clicks. Their products are certainly targeted to be easy to use by anyone, not just the tech savvy.

Obviously we don't know, but it is the first thought that popped into my head based on this experience.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Jason Burns — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:14:46 -0000

Likewise, I thought something being "pants" was a good thing.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Michael Nix — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:21:01 -0000

Ryan,

While I do agree with the fact that many designers these days just critique without an actual style or voice of their own, I have to admit this post puts a sour taste in my mouth. For one, I somewhat agree with 37signals having a very flat, overly basic approach to design and while they do make millions, I don't think it's the direction good design should be going. For two, and you may place me in the same party as that negative person for saying this, but this article seems highly contrived and almost leaning towards suggesting a certain behavior or ethical approach to Web 2.0. Perhaps you intend for this, but with the rest of the extremely valuable articles I read on thinkvitamin and your other sites, including attending FOWD, I guess I worry you took your power as the boss of this site to put up a personal defensive rant against one comment about 37signals.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

claudia snell — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:49:54 -0000

This is an excellent article. I've found myself trying to avoid interacting with 'the community' often because of the childish, self-serving nature of these bashing sessions.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Dan — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 04:35:17 -0000

What have you been smoking, dude!?

You agree that the 37S site lacks an interactive feel and you agree that this is to the site's detriment. How, then can you not agree that the suggestion that [name] put forward would quickly and simply solve this problem? It would. In modern browsers anyway.

Snide and demeaning? Hardly, but even if they were worded with a lot more negativity it wouldn't mean that the proposed solution would be any less valid.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Naomi Niles — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:36:47 -0000

I agree with you. Criticism that's non-constructive doesn't help anyone. Whenever I give someone's work a critic, I try to temper it by noting what I think could be changed to make it better and also commenting on what they did right.

Anyway, the world would be better with a little less negativity floating around. I don't people realize the impact of their negativity.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Dimitry Z — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:11:00 -0000

Carson, your work is impressive. You don't need to acknowledge to the people who bash it with negative or critical comments. It's not that web pple are mean spirited or inconsiderate, it's that they are citizens of the web, the very same that criticize Ms. Applebaum in the article you reference.

As for you commenters... "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" -- Jacqui Rivait

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Colin — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:11:53 -0000

Hey! Let's get over the pedantic negativity and focus on good design. Then the world and the internet would be better places.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Eric Martindale — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:40:43 -0000

I agree completely! This "pedantic negativity" is particularly harmful, as it encourages the community to continue making comments with the same tone. If someone has feedback, it should be phrased in a constructive fashion so that the receiver is more likely to respond positively to it.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Tony — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:41:50 -0000

We live in a world where people try to inflate their own egos by denigrating others.

That being said, if you can't take some criticism, you're not going to grow.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Halvard L. Simonsen — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:56:23 -0000

Are you really blogging that people on the internet aren't constructive, and tend be smug, annoying gits? Ryan, certain things are meant to be. And the notion that people are afraid of launching products because of semi-anonymous negativity from mother flippin' internet commenters is preposterous to me. If the fact of the publication of this post and the things that you write is any indication of the thickness of our collective skin, I fear for us.

Not to be negative, or anything.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Jay Small — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:50:11 -0000

Sometimes I think the "15-minute-celebrity" status that comes from making a snide comment under one's own name brings out bad elements of human nature even more than the well-covered effects of pseudonymous comment/forum systems.

Radio and TV talk hosts blow hard for much the same reason. Crude, foaming cynicism appeals to base instincts of broad audiences, while members of those audiences deny the appeal and feign their own outrage at how communications have devolved into shouting matches.

Yet we watch, we read, we react. We're humans who, by nature, almost can't help it. Note I say "almost" -- we can help it but it's hard to fight our own deepest feelings and salacious curiosities.

I have no idea how to solve this problem for everyone. I just know I respond better to a well-reasoned analysis, opinion or suggestion than I do to someone who deliberately stokes confrontation. For that type of person, I find the best response is not to engage.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Justin — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:48:30 -0000

I had seen the 37Signals announcement but hadn't checked out the site. Now, I have and I must say it's a bit eery. It's so strange to have a site without any interaction to user activity. The design looks great, but the lack of response feels "odd".

However, I agree with your concern. Rather than a simple suggestion for improvement, the comment is snide and demeaning.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Bryan — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:37:59 -0000

I'm not convinced that "particularly pants" is a negative, I have seen that kind of phrase used in a good manner. The problem with these electronic messages is its hard to determine if somebody is trying to be funny or just being an asshat.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Suzanne — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:32:51 -0000

Ryan I have to give you props for tackling a topic like this. This is a tough one. It takes a lot of strength to propose we all raise our communication skills up a notch. Despite the polarizing nature of this conversation, it's a valuable demonstration of the very situation that's up for consideration.

Just remember, you don't have to solve this. It was enough to hold a light up to it and say, "Do you like what you see?" A mirror is a powerful thing.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Rozza — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:14:01 -0000

This whole post is hilarious and spurious, I'm quoted from twitter in what was part of a conversation. The quote is taken out of context in an extremely spurious way and used as part of Ryan's hype machine. It's akin to hearing a sentence in a conversation and then using the interpreted meaning a source of truth.

I should note that Ryan wasn't proactive in asking for more information on the conversation and to further that I have asked Ryan to remove the mis-quote but have yet to have a response.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Simon Daly — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:37:07 -0000

Hi Ryan, I agree with you in general the tone was a bit off the cuff, probably not meant to be insulting though.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Daniel H — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:23:08 -0000

I can't think of many careers where you don't need a thick skin to get ahead... And in fact it's sometimes how thick your skin is that determines how far you go - all about effort/risk vs reward.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Daniel H — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:18:33 -0000

Ah actually just re-read it and I read it as a:active { opacity: 0.75; }, which makes more sense and actually looks cool.

Why would you want to fade a link when you hover over it?!

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

mrclark411 — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:46:10 -0000

Why are we negative? Because it is easier. It is easier to point out something missing, a misspelling, or an out of place pixel.

What is much more difficult is to explain why something works well.

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

flynnlike — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:39 -0000

haha! you, of all people, should not talk of link bait!

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Ben Darlow — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:37:35 -0000

...because your tech-savvy audience wouldn't just take your direct quote and Google it to find out who said it, would they? Perish the thought!

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Ryan Carson — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:25:20 -0000

That's why I didn't name him - wanted to keep it fair :)

Re: Hey, lose the pedantic negativity

Elliott Kember — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:19:29 -0000

Hey Dan, I had no intention of offending you - I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek with that last line. I'm going to blame it on wordpress stripping out my sarcasm tag.

The apps kinda were good publicity though, because people heard about them. For example, I'm giving a talk about building widgets at Momo Amsterdam this weekend - and Matt was on the front page of Techcrunch.

Like I said, I agree that they were a bit rushed and unfinished. I would've liked to have more time on them. I even spent my own spare time porting Twiggy for the web and iphone. All in all, you raise good points and have a valid opinion so I don't know why we're arguing. Truce? Buy you a beer at FOWD?

PS, I didn't build Tipster - Keir did.